Regenerative Grazing with Cattle with Barton Stam

Barton Stam from Hot Springs County, WY sat down with me to talk about all things regenerative grazing, working with outside partners, protein detection in herbivores, as well as what he'd tell his younger self. This is an episode you don't want to miss!

Barton can be reached at: (307) 864-3421 or brstam@uwyo.edu

Transcript

Regenerative Grazing with Cattle with Barton Stam

Makayla Getz: [00:00:00] Thank you for tuning into From the Cowboy State Podcast. This is episode number five. Today, we have got Barton Stamm from Hot Springs County, Thermopolis, Wyoming. I'm going to turn it over to him and let him introduce himself. 

Barton Stam: Well, thank you, Makayla. Yeah, I've, , been with the University of Wyoming, , based here in Thermopolis, Wyoming since 2004.

Barton Stam: , before that I was actually a student at Utah State University. And, , have been here ever since I work mostly with range management issues around the Western part of the, of Wyoming, , working mostly with livestock producers on grazing management issues, natural resources, and a few other topics, , that come up.

Makayla Getz: That's great. So you were born and raised in Utah or just went to Utah state. 

Barton Stam: I just went to Utah state. I was actually born and raised in Oregon. 

Makayla Getz: Oh, wow. 

Barton Stam: And then, , I moved to Logan, Utah to go to school [00:01:00] because I was actually working in the summertime with the U. S. Forest Service in range management.

Barton Stam: And one of the guys there just happened to say that Utah State was a good school for range management. I kind of took his word for it and moved there and signed up. 

Makayla Getz: Yeah, absolutely. And so you've been working with University of Wyoming Extension since 2004. Did I get that right? So how have you seen it change since then?

Makayla Getz: Not a loaded question. 

Barton Stam: Well, you know, I've seen, now that I've been here for 20 years, I've seen some colleagues who I also consider friends, you know, come and go. We've been through some good times financially and some bad times financially. , we've had periods of time where If someone retired or resigned, we didn't replace them.

Barton Stam: And so when I first started here, there were quite a few of us that were involved in range [00:02:00] management and that had a specific focus or specialty in, in range management and grazing issues. And those numbers are really dwindled. 

Makayla Getz: Yeah. 

Barton Stam: And, and UW extensions kind of changed their, their model too. I mean, we have, instead of hiring folks with a real specialty to work in multi county areas, you know, we're.

Barton Stam: And we are, we're looking at a lot of our more recent hires are more county focused. Those have probably been the biggest changes is sort of a lack of colleagues anymore that are specializing in range. And that's also, I mean, maybe it's a sad thing, but that's also presented me with more opportunities to work in that, in that field.

Barton Stam: So that's kind of the, some of the big changes with UW extension I've seen. But I think, I think we're in a pretty good place right now in terms of, uh, getting some more people back on board and, And there's still quite a bit of support for, for me to go out and do range management work that I'm grateful for.

Makayla Getz: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and it's been nice for me too. So being located up in Park County and you're in [00:03:00] Hot Springs, just south of, or southeast of, it's been nice to be able to learn what you, some of the specialists on campus are doing, because before coming into this role, people didn't know what you were doing.

Makayla Getz: I couldn't have told you a whole lot about range management, so it's been nice to learn in a short amount of time, what you've worked on, which we're going to dive into a little bit later, but what you've worked on, other specialists have worked on those tools that you guys have developed, which did a Daya mentioned in this previous podcast, the range management tools, great to utilize for.

Makayla Getz: measuring a multitude of different things, just whether it's your backyard, your pasture, what have you. So those tools are really helpful. And yeah, I came in not knowing much of anything about that. So that's been great to learn from. 

Barton Stam: Yeah. 

Makayla Getz: So we talked about how you came to work for University of Wyoming extension, a little bit about that background time for the traditional question on the podcast.

Makayla Getz: What [00:04:00] does agriculture mean to you, Barton? 

Barton Stam: To me, agriculture. means the production of food and fiber to feed and clothe humankind. 

Makayla Getz: Yeah. 

Barton Stam: And it's an absolutely critical, without agriculture, there wouldn't be any people on this earth. 

Makayla Getz: Absolutely. 

Barton Stam: And, uh, to me, it's a, you know, a really special part of our world that

Barton Stam: needs and deserves a lot of respect. And our care and attention so that we're, uh, responsibly and sustainably providing for the needs of humankind. 

Makayla Getz: And I think two key points there were responsibly and sustainably. So I appreciate you. 

Barton Stam: And part of that also, you know, includes being Agriculture producers being able to do it in a profitable manner.[00:05:00] 

Barton Stam: Cause, I mean the fact of life is if they can't, if they can't support themselves, and they can't support their operations, and be profitable, they wouldn't exist. 

Makayla Getz: Absolutely. 

Barton Stam: And sometimes that might sound like a, a dirty word, but it's not. Like they have to be profitable so that they can, uh, provide, provide the food and fiber that we all use.

Makayla Getz: Yeah. Well, and just, we don't want them to have to be forced to sell out and sell to those subdivided. 

Barton Stam: Right. 

Makayla Getz: Subdivisions we're seeing pop up, for me personally, between Powell and Cody, and even north of Powell now. You don't want to see that everywhere. We want to see those families and multi generational opportunities, or multi generational, uh, operations continue on.

Makayla Getz: Thank you. 

Barton Stam: Right. Yeah, our, our agricultural lands are important for much more than just the food and fiber they produce. I mean, open space. wildlife habitat, [00:06:00] water and soil conservation. It just, I mean, view, view sheds now, I think is the word. I mean, it just goes on and on that the, the value that they provide to society, those values either disappear or are diminished if those, uh, farms and ranches disappear.

Makayla Getz: Yeah, absolutely. So let's jump into what we alluded to earlier, your projects. What are Some of the bigger projects that you've been working on lately. 

Barton Stam: So in the path, one that I've been working on for probably about seven or eight years now has been a project actually on the bighorn forest where we've had a research project up there where we've been looking at the method of monitoring up there called the Roebel poll.

Barton Stam: And uh, I've had a pretty big partner with Dr. Derek's guest on campus. Who's our state range specialist. And then, uh, the U S forest service has been a partner. [00:07:00] Um, and then some Forest Service Livestock Grazing Permittees. So ranchers that graze livestock on the forest have been a, have been a partner with us as well.

Barton Stam: And then we've also had some funding from private groups like Guardians of the Range, um, and also the state program called RHAP, which, um, Rangeland Health Assessment Program we, we also got some funding from. And we also got some funding from the Ag Experiment Station with the University of Wyoming as well.

Barton Stam: And that's an ongoing research project, uh, that we're, that we're working on that's been a big one, consumed a lot of our time. And then another one that, that's really been enjoyable for me is, is kind of what I call a targeted grazing project on the Sunlight Wildlife Habitat Management Area up north of, uh, So kind of between Cody and, uh, Cook City, Montana.

Makayla Getz: Okay. 

Barton Stam: It's been a, been [00:08:00] a really fun project up there. 

Makayla Getz: Neat. So, how did, I guess, both, or if you just want to highlight one other, whichever, how did these projects come about? And how does this really fit into your role being a rangeland management specialist with UWE? 

Barton Stam: Sure. So on the targeted grazing project up in Sunlight, I had been working with one of the livestock producers up there.

Barton Stam: who owns and manages a cattle ranch up there. 

Makayla Getz: Okay. 

Barton Stam: And that cattle ranch is typical of quite a few western ranches where some of the lands are private. Okay. And some of the lands they graze on are public lands. So they have grazing allotments on the U. S. Forest Service as well. And I'd worked with him on a variety of issues, but one that sort of came up was adjacent to his, some of his property in, in Sunlight is [00:09:00] some property that the Wyoming Game and Fish owns, and that's called the Sunlight Wildlife Habitat Management Area.

Barton Stam: And I'm sure that the Game and Fish would probably want to refine my definition of what that is a little bit, and I would certainly defer to them on that. But one of the goals of that property is to provide wintering habitat for elk. So it's surrounded by the mountains. It's really not that far from Yellowstone Park.

Makayla Getz: Right. 

Barton Stam: Especially as, as elk migrate, it's really not that far. 

Makayla Getz: Right. 

Barton Stam: And one of the issues that this, uh, livestock Uh, producer was having was the elk weren't utilizing the habitat management area. And if they did come down, they were crossing the creek and going straight onto his private lands to graze.

Barton Stam: And so we wondered, were there ways that we could. influence that and [00:10:00] change or improve the habitat area so that it would be more appealing to the elk. 

Makayla Getz: So I was just going to say, and I was lucky enough to tag along with you one of the times, well, this was two or three months ago at this point now. Yep.

Makayla Getz: And, You were talking to me, you were walking me through the project, and looping me in on everything. And one of the things that you had mentioned when you were walking me through this whole regenerative grazing section of the project, is you mentioned that, you know, cattle have great protein detectors.

Makayla Getz: As we know, we, you turn them out, they know where to go to graze. Elk, you said. definitely have better protein detectors. And then you had alluded to a study, I think that you'd read or maybe the rancher that you're working with had read something along those lines. But can you talk about that a little bit more in [00:11:00] depth?

Barton Stam: Yeah. So in, I think clear back when I was in school at Utah state, I had heard about sort of a similar situation that had happened in Montana, where there had been a private ranch that had been grazed by cattle, and of course it was surrounded or neighbored other ranches that grazed cattle. But this one particular ranch changed ownership, and it went from being a privately owned ranch with livestock production on it, to being owned by the Montana, and now I can't remember exactly what they call themselves, but it the Montana version of the game and fish and they and this was clear back in the 60s or 70s and They had once once it had changed hands and gone from private ownership to owned by the state of Montana essentially the livestock production on it was removed because their goal had been instead of raising cattle on there, their goal was to provide habitat for elk.

Makayla Getz: Right. [00:12:00] 

Barton Stam: Well, what happened soon afterwards was the elk within a few years stopped using that, that property. I mean, there were elk that went, you know, through it or whatever, but the elk started focusing using the neighboring lands that still had livestock production. And so what had basically been figured out from, from that and, and from some other, uh, studies both before and after was that.

Barton Stam: Elk really prefer, like you said, they have protein detectors. Like they want pal they're just like you and I, they want food that's highly palatable. 

Makayla Getz: Right. 

Barton Stam: And cattle are the same way. So in this, in this case up in Montana, the grass was allowed on that ranch, it was allowed to grow every year. And there's really no pressure on that grass.

Barton Stam: Which sounds great, and often times, rest or deferment from grazing is a, is a tool we'll use to recover certain landscapes. But it can also, the pendulum of that can swing too far. And so, when you get [00:13:00] forages that go too long without some sort of disturbance, which could be grazing, it could be a fire, it could even be mowing, it could be anything.

Barton Stam: Uh, those grasses tend to get pretty coarse and unpalatable. And so instead of having fresh, succulent, palatable grasses, you have multiple years of old grasses that builds up and up and up. And it's, it doesn't become, I mean, it's still grazeable, but if you're an elk. And you can pretty much go anywhere you want to.

Barton Stam: I mean, with some limitations on the landscape, you're going to choose those areas that have palatable grasses. 

Makayla Getz: Yeah. 

Barton Stam: Instead of unpalatable. And also that can mean more nutritious grasses. So in this case in Montana, they eventually started going to the neighboring ranches where there was still cattle production and possibly some haying operations.

Barton Stam: So what that means is [00:14:00] instead of the grasses being allowed to get old and, and coarse every year, the cattle on those ranches, because the cattle don't have the ability to leave a pasture like an elk does. And so those cattle were setting those grasses back every year and keeping those, uh, Those grasses on those neighboring ranches more palatable and more nutritious And at some point the folks that were managing that property in montana real I mean realized what was going on, 

Makayla Getz: right?

Barton Stam: and amidst quite a bit of controversy, they put cattle back on the Game and Fish property. 

Makayla Getz: Okay. 

Barton Stam: But they didn't just turn them out willy nilly 

Barton Stam: and 

Barton Stam: just say, have at it. 

Makayla Getz: Yeah. 

Barton Stam: They were in a, they were in a well managed grazing program meant to provide, yes, some disturbance on the grasses, but also for the ability for those grasses to [00:15:00] reproduce, protect the soil, protect the water resources, but not get to the point to where the grasses were so unpalatable.

Barton Stam: And the elk started reusing that property again because now the grasses are more nutritious and palatable to them. Again, once more. And then, um, there, there's also been some other studies done about using livestock grazing, cattle in particular, to improve elk habitat. And in fact, um, our college dean, Kelly Crane, did some work on, on one of those studies as well.

Barton Stam: We kind of used. That we also kind of used to help guide us in this in this project So our project wasn't really so much of a study because kind of the research had already kind of been done Sure, it was more like let's just apply some of the lessons that That these other studies and other, um, projects have, have kind of [00:16:00] led the way on.

Makayla Getz: Absolutely. 

Barton Stam: Back to this, uh, situation in Sunlight. Over a few years, myself and the livestock producer approached the Game and Fish personnel about, to see what their thoughts would be on doing something very similar. It's putting, putting livestock grazing back on this. Right. On this, uh, habitat area that's owned by the Game and Fish.

Barton Stam: It took a few years, not so much because anybody disagreed with us or thought we were wrong. It just, sometimes these things take a little time to get done. 

Makayla Getz: naturally put into 

Barton Stam: action. And so starting in, uh, late spring, early summer of 2023, we started grazing that sunlight habitat management area with yearling steers.

Barton Stam: And once again, we didn't just turn animals out. And just 

Makayla Getz: let them wander all [00:17:00] over. 

Barton Stam: Right. Because if we had done that, that wouldn't have been that much of an improvement of, if we had just let those animals pick and choose where they graze, that really isn't that much of an improvement. 

Makayla Getz: Sure. That defeats the purpose.

Barton Stam: Right. Now there's a couple, there's a couple of questions I get. about this is one, why did we use yearling steers as opposed to like old mother cows, which might be better technically for trying to reduce old growth in the, in the forages. But really it came down to a matter of, we needed a fairly high number of cattle and we needed them close by.

Barton Stam: And so this livestock producer, you know, that's what he, he raises or he runs is yearling steers that he buys in the winter and spring. Runs them throughout the summer and early fall and then sells them. So really the, the matter of why we use yearling steers is cause that's what we had available.

Makayla Getz: Whatever works. 

Barton Stam: And so [00:18:00] when we turned them out on this habitat area, they were put into temporary pastures or paddocks that were set up using temporary electric fencing. 

Makayla Getz: Okay. 

Barton Stam: So what we were, our goal there was to reduce the cattle's ability to be selective. We really wanted them to, as much as we could, we wanted them to sort of uniformly take the The old forage is out 

Makayla Getz: right 

Barton Stam: with the Idea that by doing that we would stimulate the new growth to come up and therefore provide more palatable and more nutritious grasses Forges that would be more attractive to the elk, so that the elk would, if they, when they do come down off the mountains, that they would spend more time on the wildlife habitat management area and less time on the adjacent private lands or also some other private lands that would be further down out of the mountains.

Makayla Getz: Taking that pressure off of those ranchers there. [00:19:00] Now is there any irrigation set up on those? 

Barton Stam: On 

Makayla Getz: the habitat management area. On the habitat management area. Thank you. Yep. 

Barton Stam: Yeah, that was one of the really cool things about this is that, so Wyoming is a pretty dry state. Yes, very. And, and that area of the state, you know, it gets a fair amount of snow, uh, and some rain.

Barton Stam: It's certainly not the driest part of the state. But one of the coolest things that are really one of the most convenient things about this project was that there were already center pivot irrigation set up on the, on the habitat management area. Okay. And another very fortunate thing was that some of the employees that worked on the ranch have extensive pivot experience because the ranch also uses center pivot irrigation.

Barton Stam: So this provided a, a number of really helpful things for us on this project. One, after the, uh, after the cattle [00:20:00] grazed a certain area and we moved them off because we didn't, we didn't keep them in any one area. So we grazed almost a thousand head of steers. in relatively small areas, but probably the longest they were ever in one pasture at a time was a day and a half, maybe close to two days.

Barton Stam: And then they were moved. And so once they were moved and off a piece, the irrigation was turned back on and that allowed those, that really stimulated the grasses to, to regrow, which is what you want. You want that regrowth. The other thing that really helped us out was one of the difficulties when you're trying to intensively manage grazing of livestock is how are you going to water them?

Barton Stam: It, moving water around is tough. And so, but with the center pivot irrigations, we basically had a ready supply of water. 

Makayla Getz: Okay. 

Barton Stam: So with, with some somewhat movable water trials, The center pivot irrigation systems supplied the water for the [00:21:00] livestock as well. 

Makayla Getz: That's great. 

Barton Stam: So that really was, I mean it really was an ideal set of circumstances to have a, a livestock producer immediately adjacent that had the available cattle, that had the experience with intensively manage, managing cattle grazing, and had the experience to, Work with center pivot irrigation.

Barton Stam: It's not I mean it really pays to have some experience with that women. 

Makayla Getz: No, absolutely That's not something that you just walk into and decide to do one day and it happens a week later. You know, that's yeah so I want to Backtrack a little bit because you've mentioned working with a cattle ranch manager and his staff You've mentioned working with US Forest Service.

Makayla Getz: Yeah. 

Makayla Getz: And then, you know, a few other entities. So can we talk about. What has your experience been like working with these different [00:22:00] offices, external partners, et cetera? Or how have you worked with these offices in the past? 

Barton Stam: Yeah, so a lot of those partners that I work with are, the main ones are, be the U.

Barton Stam: S. Forest Service, uh, the Bureau of Land Management that we also shortened to BLM. 

Makayla Getz: Yep. 

Barton Stam: And then, um, Game and Fish. NRCS, and there, there's been some others. Wildlife services is also one. I don't know if they'd always say they'd enjoy working with me, but, you know, I really enjoy working with other professionals.

Barton Stam: Probably one of my favorite things, this might sound a little weird, but probably one of my favorite things. Is when I work with somebody else and we can have a professional relationship to the point where we might disagree with each other 

Barton Stam: But 

Barton Stam: we can still work together when we can just we might disagree about one thing 

Speaker 3: Right, 

Barton Stam: but we probably agree about a whole bunch of others or we might disagree on [00:23:00] how we're going to get somewhere But we have an end goal in common Absolutely, and if you have mutual respect and you're both or both sides or all parties are professional, you can usually work through those.

Barton Stam: And so I've had the chance to work with professionals in all those groups I named that that have been just the consummate professionals that they can work together towards a common goal, even if we disagree with something about something. And that brings up a pretty good point, because the livestock producer in this situation, we're talking about the targeted grazing.

Barton Stam: You know, there's been some conflict on some other issues with the game of fish. You know, livestock predation is one of them. And so there's been some conflict, but that doesn't mean that on this issue that we, that we have a common goal that we can't work together. And so I've really appreciated that opportunity with our game and fish partners and the livestock producer on, on that one.

Barton Stam: Now I'm not going to try to sugar coat [00:24:00] everything and say that it's always, you know, kumbaya. Everyone's 

Makayla Getz: best friends all the time. 

Barton Stam: Because that's not the case. Um, I'm sure that some people in those agencies would Probably had heartburn over working with me sometime and and the vice versa is true as well.

Barton Stam: Sure, but the vast majority of the time It's just a really enjoyable experience to work with with other people in both in the private industry and in those Sort of federal and state agencies as well. 

Makayla Getz: Yeah. 

Makayla Getz: Yeah. I think the quote I hear most often is you don't have to like everybody But you just have to work together, you know, get the job done.

Barton Stam: Yep. 

Makayla Getz: It happens. 

Barton Stam: Yep. And I, I've been in sort of, I've seen some conflicts where, I mean, it's gotten to the point of like lawsuit type conflict where we're in court. Then when we get back on the ground and we're trying to work towards a problem and even in the courtroom, there's still very much a mutual respect.

Barton Stam: You know, both sides are working hard. Both sides are trying to 

Barton Stam: get a 

Barton Stam: job done and accomplish a goal. [00:25:00] But we disagree on an issue. So it, it definitely happens, but it's It's part of the job, I guess, in natural resources, probably in all industries, where you have to be professional, you have to be respectful, know that the other person isn't just out to get you or out to do something wrong.

Makayla Getz: Oh, absolutely. So, as you mentioned earlier, you've been in your role for 20 years. 

Makayla Getz: Yeah. Yeah. 

Makayla Getz: For quite a while. And so it seems like you have these, like I said, foundational relationships, you know, a lot of people you've been in this area and are working on these unique projects. And so Barton's working on this regenerative grazing thing, your, um, Bighorn Mountain project, was that the other one that you mentioned?

Makayla Getz: The Bighorn 

Makayla Getz: Forest. 

Makayla Getz: The Bighorn Forest project. Exactly. Um, but you've worked really hard to make these connections and you're out in the field all the time. You were a [00:26:00] liaison for Bridger for something earlier in the year. I can't remember what he was having you work with donors on for something. Not to get into the weeds on that, but, but my point is you've made these, you've worked really hard to make these connections.

Makayla Getz: So there's a whole group of us that are coming up in this A& R field. Is there any advice that you would give to us who've been in this, you know, role for five years or less, give or take? 

Barton Stam: I think probably the biggest piece of advice is that it's, it's not easy to be technically good in your field, but almost anyone can learn the nuts and bolts of your subject area.

Barton Stam: For some personalities, it's harder, probably for most personalities, it's harder to build those significant relationships. Especially where, like we were talking about earlier, you might be disagreeing with them. 

Makayla Getz: Sure. 

Barton Stam: But I think being, [00:27:00] being willing to sort of, well being willing to build relationships and spend time building relationships.

Barton Stam: and demonstrate mutual respect and be willing to learn from other people. I could sit here and say, well, I've been doing this for 20 years, but I have colleagues that have been doing it for a lot longer than that. 

Makayla Getz: Yeah. 

Barton Stam: And there's plenty I can learn from someone who just got here too. And there's plenty I can learn from someone who's in a different agency.

Makayla Getz: Right. 

Barton Stam: And so being able to learn from others, build those relationships and be honest. When I was a brand new extension educator, I really wanted to, and I still do, but I really wanted to make a good impression. And when it seemed like one of the worst things to do would be like, if someone asks you a question and you don't know what it is.

Barton Stam: Right. You want to sort of make up an answer. 

Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, I know that. Yeah. 

Barton Stam: But like, that's the worst thing you can do. If you're sitting there making [00:28:00] up an answer and you don't know it. 

Barton Stam: Right. And I, 

Barton Stam: I did it, you know, we probably all have done it. I mean, if you're talking to. A farmer, a rancher, or even a homeowner that has a yard and garden question and you're trying to make up an answer, like they usually see through that.

Barton Stam: They respect you so much more if you're able to say something along the lines of, I don't 

Barton Stam: know. I have no idea. 

Barton Stam: But you follow that up with, But we'll figure this out. 

Makayla Getz: Yep. 

Barton Stam: And then you actually do that. 

Makayla Getz: And get back to that 

Barton Stam: person and, and figure it out. And one of the really cool things about working in the university system is that there are so many resources.

Makayla Getz: Yeah. 

Barton Stam: We have so many colleagues that might know the answer, that probably do know the answer. 

Makayla Getz: Yeah. 

Barton Stam: And that's, that's another thing I really like about it, and that what I would advise newer folks is to not be afraid to utilize, not just newer folks, all of us to not be afraid to utilize. These resources that are [00:29:00] that are out there that just makes it make it so much better than trying to come up with an answer Yeah, 

Makayla Getz: I will say that's taken me so I started in February That's taken me a little bit to get comfortable with because I think it is intimidating to Come into like you said this huge university system where everybody does have their specialty and It seems that everybody knows a lot about a lot, and like you've said, nobody started out that way.

Makayla Getz: Well, they may have had a specialty, you know, they got their master's in range management or livestock or, you know, it didn't start out that way. And so it's just, it's intimidating to take that first step of sending that email or making that call of, Hey, I need help with this, but it. Luckily, everybody is so welcoming and it is easy to, once you take that first step to take that first jump and then so on and so forth, it, it's been easy to get there.

Makayla Getz: It just takes a second. [00:30:00] 

Barton Stam: And I think another big thing about that along with the relationships is it's, it's important to me. And I, To be, to be part of the community 

Barton Stam: that I'm in. 

Barton Stam: And I don't just mean the town of Thermopolis or the county of Hot Springs, you know, to be at things like Wyoming Stock Growers Association or the wool growers, or to have been at the sheep and wool festival that we had here in Thermopolis.

Barton Stam: People see you out there and you're talking to them. You're building relationships with them. You're finding out their needs. And then you're doing something about some of those needs that you have the ability to address. Every once in a while, you know, I'll be gone out of my office. Well, not every once in a while.

Barton Stam: I'm gone out of my office all the time. But every once in a while when I am gone out of my office, somebody will, you know, someone calls and I'm not here. And most people understand that, but sometimes there's been a complaint like, well, you're not even in your office. Well, of course there's work that requires me to be in my office, [00:31:00] but there's so much work that I can't do sitting in my chair.

Makayla Getz: Yeah. 

Barton Stam: And so not being afraid to get out there and, you know, So, I think it's a great opportunity to meet people, being part of the community. You know, we've got fair, county fairs coming up. At least being visible at those. I'm not the biggest fair person. I'm basically useless when it comes to showing livestock.

Barton Stam: But, I get so much value out of being at our county fair, because it's an opportunity to network with people and to get to know them. And honestly, it's a great, it can be a good needs assessment time. Because It's a, it's a chance to talk to people and they can tell you what, what, uh, what some of their needs might be that you or I or the extension system could, could help them with.

Makayla Getz: Absolutely. That's, uh, so Park County's fair is this week. We had 4 H judging yesterday. Today is the unload and weigh in day. And then I'm in the swine barn tomorrow. [00:32:00] But, uh, no, just like what you're saying, you know, we did a 4 H program, a photography program earlier in the year and then some of those 4 H kids and moms, parents that brought their kids to that program, I already saw again yesterday and they started making that connection of, Oh, this is Michaela, the A& R extension educator, you know, and it's just starting to make that.

Makayla Getz: Connections and everything and more and more with those folks in the community. Some of the irrigation district managers are there and yeah, just like you're talking about. 

Barton Stam: We, and so one of our big stakeholder groups is the Wyoming Stock Growers 

Barton Stam: Association 

Barton Stam: and they meet twice a year. You know, and at those meetings, we, we try to provide some service like recording the meeting, committee meeting minutes, and that's an important service, but what I really find important is the same thing about being there is the chance to network with those livestock [00:33:00] producers and the agency personnel that are, attend the same meeting, and that to me is the real value to be there at that meeting is to, a chance to, network, assess their needs, help them out.

Barton Stam: They can help me out quite a bit too. 

Barton Stam: Those are important events to be at. And sometimes the, the best benefit of being there isn't exactly because of the meeting, but it's because of the networking opportunity. 

Makayla Getz: I took notes at the summer meeting for the public and private lands meeting and so, you know, they go over previous motions and everything like that, make new motions, what have you.

Makayla Getz: And one of the new things that was put into effect, I guess people are having Issues of, um, tourists, there it is, I was like, not pedestrians, tourists, riding their electric bikes on private lands to go hunting. [00:34:00] And then they are hauling the deer, antelope, whatever they shoot, out on the electric bikes. 

Barton Stam: As a way to sneak them out?

Barton Stam: As 

Makayla Getz: a way to sneak them out, because you hear a side by side or an ATV, or a truck, you know, what have you, you don't hear an electric bike. So that was a new thing that was put into. laws, their commandments, what have you, was to rule out the electric bikes because that's been I guess such an issue. A guy actually caught on camera someone hauling out an antelope on an electric bike and you would just never think 

Makayla Getz: that 

Makayla Getz: that would be.

Makayla Getz: I was so happy, I was like, trying to type, but at the same time, I'm just like, you would never, yeah. 

Barton Stam: Yeah, and so if you hadn't have been at that meeting, you might not still know about 

Makayla Getz: it. No, I would never know, but that's also something though I can take back to Park County and be like, okay, so, just so we know.

Makayla Getz: Yeah. Goodness. Okay, so, [00:35:00] um, next question for you. Your most memorable project throughout the years good bad either or 

Barton Stam: So there's a there's a livestock producer here in the state that underwent a huge amount of conflict with a public land agency to the point of you know, there were court cases involved and losing grazing permits and You know, I played a relatively small role in in this process, but even playing a small role, you know, eventually we got, or the ranch got their grazing permits back.

Barton Stam: And not only that, but the relationship with the public land agency improved greatly. I mean, it went, turned to 180 and that, and that, that didn't happen overnight. I mean, it was years, [00:36:00] but seeing that all happen and seeing, you know, livestock returned to those allotments. Seeing the working relationships improve, that's probably been one of my most memorable experiences that was, you know, a multi year, um, lots of stress, lots of, I mean, conflict, arguments, but then moving from that to successfully working together for sustainable, profitable livestock production, but also natural resource management.

Barton Stam: That's really been a that's been a meaningful project that I that I got to be a small part of 

Makayla Getz: That seems like it would be in kind of an all encompassing of your role, too. That's neat. 

Barton Stam: Yeah that, I'll look back on that probably for a long time and just kind of, and there's been others too But that one really kind of stands out to me because I mean it went [00:37:00] from just really really bad.

Makayla Getz: Yeah. 

Barton Stam: To, it's a dang good working relationship now. 

Makayla Getz: That's neat to hear. How long ago was that? 

Barton Stam: Oh, I mean, it was going on in the, in the nineties. 

Makayla Getz: Oh, wow. Okay. 

Barton Stam: And, uh, you know, but it's been a good, solid working relationship now for probably five, six years now. 

Makayla Getz: Right. 

Barton Stam: Yeah. I mean, it was a longterm, you know, it started before I came here and, you know, through the efforts of, uh, the livestock producer and, um, different and new people that worked for the public land agency and, and others, you know, it changed and we're.

Barton Stam: Really for the for the benefit of everyone involved. 

Makayla Getz: That's great. So my last question Before we close out if you had to give any advice to your younger self [00:38:00] Starting in this role, which you kind of already touched on a little bit But if yeah, you had to give any advice to younger self, what would it be?

Barton Stam: I think if I had to give myself from 20 years ago Advice one piece of advice would be to not be afraid to take credit For a successful project that I had worked on. I think a lot of times, uh, as educators, we want to be modest or we don't want to brag about work we've done, but in our system of evaluation, it's important for us as University of Wyoming extension educators.

Barton Stam: To take credit for good work that we've done. This helps show our supervisors and our colleagues what we've been doing. And that becomes especially important when it's time for promotions or maybe [00:39:00] even a pay raise. Now, this doesn't mean that we don't recognize partners or collaborators that have worked on a good project with us, because we certainly want to recognize their efforts as well.

Barton Stam: But we need to make sure, especially as newer educators. That we take our proper credit for a successful project or program that we've worked on. I don't know if that's a good answer or not. 

Makayla Getz: No, that is, yeah. I'm just gonna take some notes over here. Yeah, okay. So, any upcoming events? I know you mentioned County Fair.

Makayla Getz: Any other upcoming events, programs, what have you? 

Barton Stam: Uh, well, it's not necessarily upcoming because, you know, The Wyoming Ranch Camp. Yes. I would like to mention, uh, so that normally happens in June, so it kind of just happened. It's really kind of a year long effort where we try to market it and recruit. The Wyoming Ranch Camp was started [00:40:00] in, well, our first one was in 2021.

Barton Stam: We had tried to do 2020, but COVID stopped that. 

Makayla Getz: Sure. 

Barton Stam: And what the Wyoming Ranch Camp is, is we go to a host ranch and we spend five days there with our participant, our students, and our target audience for our students is really a college age, young adults. But they need to be 18 or older to come, but we have had some much older than traditional college age students come as well.

Barton Stam: And our class is normally limited to about 15 to 16 students. And we stay at a ranch, and we work with that ranch on teaching these students about ranching and livestock production and natural resource management. One thing that I want to clear up about Wyoming Ranch Camp is Wyoming Ranch Camp is not a dude camp.

Makayla Getz: No, it's not. 

Barton Stam: Yeah, so I've, I've had, I've talked to some young adults that have been involved in ag culture and said, Hey, you should come to Ranch Camp. And they've kind of looked at me like, I don't need ranch. 

Makayla Getz: And 

Barton Stam: I think it's [00:41:00] because they view it as a dude camp. 

Makayla Getz: Well, and I think there's some photos of y'all branding, but just because there's a branding portion, that's just one aspect because when you manage cattle, most people brand their cattle, right?

Makayla Getz: However, that is one small section. There's so much more than goes into it. 

Barton Stam: We talk about, uh, ag economics, We talk about the specifics of managing that ranch, you know, the ranches we've gone to have been involved in multiple business enterprises Besides just livestock production, so energy, recreation, hunting, those are huge aspects to ranch management.

Barton Stam: So, I really want people out there that hear about Wyoming Ranch Camp to view Wyoming Ranch Camp as more of a, a valuable extension program. Absolutely. It just happens to be a multi day event where we, we don't really. 

Makayla Getz: Takes place on a ranch. Yeah, takes place at a 

Barton Stam: ranch where we stay there. Because we've also, and we have had those students come that have never even touched 

Barton Stam: head 

Barton Stam: of livestock, but we've also had students come that are, you know, [00:42:00] from legacy family operations.

Makayla Getz: Yeah. 

Barton Stam: And they've all seen some value to coming. 

Makayla Getz: And this past year, or I guess just a few months ago. You had a really great segment about ranch leadership, ranch management and leadership. Is that right? 

Barton Stam: Right. Yeah. So, uh. 

Makayla Getz: Which is, I think, invaluable. 

Barton Stam: Yeah. Just, so on these ranches that we go to, we have their management team be part of the class, and they do quite a bit of the instructing.

Barton Stam: Yeah. They do quite a bit of the instructing. So we do have those hands on things like branding and, and, um, But, there's a lot of time spent with the management teams on these ranches where they talk about things like recruiting employees, employee retention, the management facets to a ranch that are besides building fence or trailing cattle.

Barton Stam: The finances, the leases, the agreements, it's just, it's almost [00:43:00] infinite, the, the problems that these management teams deal with. And so that's really kind of the focus of Branch Camp is to get, uh, students and they, like I said, they might have lots of experience or they might have no experience, but we can still expose them to, to the management strategies and to the realities of, of managing these.

Barton Stam: While they're with us for a week, you know, we, we split them up into groups. And they come up with a, sort of a, a proposal of an enterprise for the, for the ranch. And they, and they present it to a team, a panel of judges at 

Barton Stam: the end. 

Barton Stam: It's kind of a competition form as well. A friendly competition. Uh, but it's been a great experience.

Barton Stam: We have some videos that we can share about Wyoming Ranch Camp, and I know it's a long ways away, but if there's someone that's interested in either hosting a ranch camp in the future, contributing financially to Wyoming Ranch Camp, or especially someone who's interested in attending ranch camp, I'll take every opportunity I can [00:44:00] to try to get the word out.

Barton Stam: Perfect. Yeah. 

Makayla Getz: All right. Well, University of Wyoming Extension Ranch Camp Just under a year from now and that all of that information is on the University of Wyoming extension website. And as time gets closer, more updated info will come out. But, if you're interested in being the host ranch, reach out to Barton.

Barton Stam: Yeah, that'd work. 

Makayla Getz: Yep, and Barton, what's your email address? Or phone number, whatever's best. 

Barton Stam: Yeah, so my email is That is B R S T A M at U W Y O dot E D U, and of course, they can also find that on the University of Wyoming Extension webpage as well, and my phone number, which is 307 864 3421. 

Makayla Getz: Perfect. So this has been episode five of From the Cowboy [00:45:00] State Podcast, a University of Wyoming Extension agriculture and natural resources podcast.

Makayla Getz: I'm your host, Makayla Getz, and we were joined today by Barton Stam. As

Makayla Getz: a reminder, this is a University of Wyoming Extension podcast. The university is committed to equal opportunity for all persons in all facets of the university's operations and is an equal opportunity slash affirmative action employer. If you have any questions, comments, concerns about this statement, please [00:46:00] don't hesitate to reach out to mget.

Makayla Getz: uw do edu and we can get your questions answered. And if you have any questions, comments, concerns about the podcast as well, again, don't hesitate to reach out to that email address mgetz@uwyo.edu. Again, this has been a University of Wyoming Extension, agriculture and Natural Resources Podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in.